John Murray of Upper Makefield is the Democratic candidate for U.S. Congress in Pennsylvania's 8th District. He is challenging two-term Republican incumbent Representative James Greenwood of Erwinna. The 8th District includes all of Bucks County and a small part of Montgomery County. John Murray is interviewed by Loren Danzis, a law student at New York University and lifetime resident of Doylestown.
In this interview Mr. Murray discusses the following subjects:
LOREN DANZIS: Please describe your background credentials, where you've been the last few years, and how you became the Democratic candidate in the 8th Congressional district.
JOHN MURRAY: I've been a Bucks County resident for the last 20 years. Prior to coming here I was very active in Democratic Party politics both in Philadelphia and Delaware County. I left Delaware County to take a break from politics since the only people I knew were by registration, contribution to a party function, or what side of the fence they were on. It was my intention to come here with my wife to lead a normal life as residents of a community and raise a family in that fashion.
Over the last years I became active in Bucks County politics. I got appointed to the Committee and was involved in campaigns for Row Offices and in the Party organization for campaigns. In 1994 the Democrats were searching for a candidate to run for Congress because it was the first time we were without Peter Kostmayer as a candidate. I ran for Congress knowing we were in a bad situation as far as fundraising and organizational concerns. I vowed at the end of that campaign that if we could put an organization together then I'd like to run again. I also saw that our Congressman with his friends in Congress, Newt Gingrich, and the Contract with America made a difference in my approach. I saw a stripe on Jim Greenwood that wasn't there before.
LOREN DANZIS: The Republicans argue that Jim Greenwood is a moderate, not the fire-breathing conservative Speaker of the House. They cite Greenwood's vote in support of partial birth abortions and his support for organizations like the United Nations. Is Greenwood not a moderate Republican?
JOHN MURRAY: No. His votes in the past year have been 85% with the Christian Coalition and over 90% with the Contract with America. His only difference with the Contract is on women's rights and the assault weapons ban. He's been right down the conservative line with the anti-crime bill, the budget, and cuts in education. In terms of a woman's right to choose, Greenwood endorsed ending abortion rights for women at American hospitals on foreign military bases. So I don't know how moderate he is, even on the pro-choice issue.
LOREN DANZIS: When it comes to federal funding of educational programs, Greenwood has voted to reduce the budget deficit by cutting funding for school nutrition programs, public broadcasting, and student loans. Do you disagree?
JOHN MURRAY: My background is in education. Education, when delivered properly, can benefit a lot of people and make productive citizens out of those otherwise given no hope. Jim Greenwood, again voting right down the line with the Gingrich agenda, cut the ten billion dollars out of the education budget that would make access to student loans more readily available to kids. The direct loan program that the President has sponsored out of the Department of Education is something he wishes to shoot down. Taking Big Bird away from our five year olds, lunch money away from our ten year olds, job training programs away from our fifteen year olds, and college loans away from our twenty year olds is a disgrace. Hardly moderate, this is reactionary, conservative and mean-spirited. It's designed to cut people off from having the opportunity that Jim Greenwood had growing up. He doesn't want anybody to be in the boat with him. He's gotten his and that's the end of it. Well, that's not the way the government ought to work and he shouldn't be there for that purpose.
LOREN DANZIS: While these programs sound good, Bucks County voters are concerned about their taxes. What about Dole's proposed 15% tax cut?
JOHN MURRAY: Jim Greenwood has not voiced support for Dole's proposed 15% tax cut. In the Bristol Courier Jim Greenwood's press agent said he is not entirely in favor of Dole's plan and does not believe it is realistic to expect we can cut 540 billion dollars out of the budget. Bucks County people are not all that concerned about their taxes when it comes to something as farfetched as Bob Dole's presentation. People are anxious to balance the budget, to reduce the deficit, and to do some sensible things about the economy and other circumstances in this nation. But, they don't wish to go about it in the way Jim Greenwood did by taking a buzz saw to a lot of things, cutting them out, and putting people in jeopardy.
LOREN DANZIS: Bucks County voters profess a genuine concern about our environment. The County is developing very rapidly. Sometimes those developments bring jobs, like the Lockhead Martin plant in Newtown which covered farmland. Obviously this is a complicated and delicate issue. What are your thoughts about the environment?
JOHN MURRAY: This County had for fourteen years an A plus representative in Congress when it came to the environment. Peter Kostmayer, a co-chair of my campaign, was a very ardent environmentalist on issues across the country and in this area, such as the Delaware river. We have now a Congressman who is at best a D plus to C, but it depends upon what time of the election cycle we see him. So the county is lacking in the environmental interest we have because our Representative is not there.
Development in this county is always going to be an issue. Until development and zoning are handled on a regional basis, rather than each municipality left to its own devices, we will suffer from developers having the upper hand in suits and in front of zoning boards. I'd like to see an arrested growth of development. You can't stop it, but it's important we do something about the developers having the upper hand.
Lockhead Martin is a phony issue as far as job development. Lockhead Martin downsized two locations within the immediate vicinity of where they are now in Lower Makefield township. That happens to be in Windsor township, New Jersey and King of Prussia. Lockhead Martin down-sized, laid off, and then built a new building in Lower Makefield. There aren't additional jobs because Lockhead created fewer jobs than it laid off. There aren't new jobs, other than in the construction industry which is temporary, because those from nearby Windsor township and King of Prussia will be here. The new factory will take at least two farms already committed to the Conservancy so that a new highway could be built allowing workers to get in and out of the factory. It's a net loss for us. We aren't getting new employment in this area, we're just getting a new place for people already employed to go to work and we're loosing green space already committed by people involved there.
LOREN DANZIS: The race for the 8th Congressional district is actually quite crowded. There is Libertarian Richard Piotrowski and Constitutional Law Party candidate Dave Booth. What does the crowded field tell us about Bucks County politics? How is your campaign reaching out to independent voters?
JOHN MURRAY: It's nice to have a lot of people in the field. Independent, third party, Libertarian, Reform and other party candidates can do what they want to do. I welcome them to the race. The more competition involved, the better it is for the voters because they get more of a diverse point of view. That divergence of views is good. I don't know that the other two candidates have a chance of winning. The polls suggest they probably can't pull in the votes. They lack the finances necessary to compete at the level I am and certainly not at the level of Jim Greenwood. So these candidates benefit the voters of Bucks County, but whether they influence the outcome of the race remains to be seen.
LOREN DANZIS: What about Tom Lingenfelter who finished only 6,000 votes behind Jim Greenwood in the Republican Party primary?
JOHN MURRAY: Tom Lingenfelter told us that there's some vulnerability to Jim Greenwood. In certain communities where there seems to be Republican Party upheaval there was a real show for Lingenfelter. I think it was more a "throw the bum out," rather than just Tom Lingenfelter. But, it does show vulnerability on Greenwood's part.
LOREN DANZIS: Articles about campaign finance in the 8th Congressional race offer two major headlines. First, "Greenwood rejects PAC money, Murray accepts PAC money." Second, by some accounts at certain times during this campaign ,"Greenwood has ten times as much money as Murray." What is happening behind those headlines? What effect is financing having on the election?
JOHN MURRAY: All elections revolve around and are often resolved by who raises the most money. That's unfair. I'd like to see that process changed, but it seems once you win and get to Congress, that doesn't happen. You're no longer an ardent supporter of campaign finance reform. Several pieces of legislation have died or not been considered by Congress in the last two years.
Jim Greenwood professes not to take PAC money, but he accepts it. PAC money is listed in his FEC reports. It's an out-and-out untruth that he doesn't take PAC money. But in addition to that, he also takes money from corporations in the names of the CEOs. PAC contributions in federal campaigns are limited to five thousand dollars. Jim Greenwood gets more than five thousand dollars from each corporation that he solicits. Several corporations in this county give Jim Greenwood seven, eight, nine thousand dollars each election cycle. This substitute PAC money is in excess of the limits he's allowed to take under normal PAC money rules. So he does take PAC money, and this is another one of those phony moderate points of view.
The fact is, PACs were created to reform the election law abuses engendered by the Nixon White House during the Watergate years. In order to counteract the money that flowed from big business, PACs were created to allow regular employees to pool their resources to have an influence similar to the bosses. To turn around and say "PACs are a dirty thing" and "we can't take PAC money," while taking corporate money in excess of the limits on PAC contributions is typical of Jim Greenwood. He says one thing and does another.
LOREN DANZIS: Many Democrats argue President Clinton needs a Democratic Congress, but according to The New York Times, Clinton enjoyed more legislative success with the Republican controlled 104th than the Democratic controlled 103rd. What would happen if Bucks County elected you and other districts followed, creating a Democratic controlled Congress?
JOHN MURRAY: A Democratic Congress would help some of the Clinton agenda, but I would also stand opposed to some of Clinton's agenda. Clinton signed off on a welfare bill that I do not think is a good bill. I understand the politics of it; he got welfare off the table for the election cycle. Clinton himself admits its a bad bill and amendments must be made. But it's very risky for the President to sign a bill and hope that come January he will be there to change it. Ask the people who on October 1 were affected by the new legislation. I don't think they like living with that kind of risk. So I will stand more steadfastly for the things I stand up for, like people who work for a living. I'd like to be able to stand that way when I go to Congress.
The other part that would help the people of Bucks County, I would maintain the integrity of their pensions and not give corporations the right to raid pension funds. Jim Greenwood voted to give corporations tax credits for doing that, without informing employees. I would safeguard Medicare. I would look for ways to revise Medicare, rather than just control and cut Medicare, which is what they've tried to do with this 270 billion dollar cut. The 245 billion dollar tax proposal they had for the twelve percent richest people in the country I think is ludicrous. We have some of those people in this county, but I'm sure their understanding of what the government needs to do is not necessarily to give them a tax break before all else.
So, I'd like to do things the way we did before we got Newt Gingrich and Jim Greenwood teaming up. The education programs and the whole idea of environmental support. Republicans have restricted EPA funding to take away enforcement. Jim has voted on and sponsored bills to take away occupational safety and health restrictions on corporations. I'd like to see us moving ahead with those things that protect the people of this country, rather than protect Jim Greenwood.
LOREN DANZIS: In 1994 you received 27 percent of the vote. However, it is no longer an off-year election and Speaker Gingrich seems especially unpopular. What is your prediction of the outcome in 1996 and why?
JOHN MURRAY: I can win this election if my resources maintain themselves through October. Because this is not an off-year election, because Newt Gingrich has been exposed, and more importantly because the President enjoys an enormous advantage in the polls, this combination will be advantageous to the undercard, myself included as well the State Assembly candidates and the statewide candidates for Auditor General, Attorney General, and Treasurer.
But I think one of the things that has happened to Jim Greenwood is that he cast his lot with Newt Gingrich. Jim Greenwood has been identified by a lot of the things he has supported in the Contract with America. All I have to do is make sure that my name and my issues are known to the people, which takes resources. Mailing, personnel, signs, advertising, and those kind of things. If I am able to generate those resources, and I expect that I will over the next three weeks, we will have an impact on this campaign. It will be a victory for us.
LOREN DANZIS: Thank you very much.
JOHN MURRAY: My pleasure.